As I began reading this novel, I found it helpful to read the Foreword. Not only was it helpful, but insightful as well. Toni Morrison uses about a paragraph to expand on the meaning of women's freedom, "I think now it was the shock of liberation that drew my thoughts to what 'free' could possibly mean to women . . . Assertions of parenthood under conditions peculiar to the logic of institutional enslavement were criminal".
I did a little of my own "expanding" off her thoughts. She mentions equality and other factors of freedom concerning law, but is that all freedom is to an individual? For some, physical and rightful freedom is sufficient enough. However, I know that for me, I still yearn for something more. I believe that at one point or another, everyone searches for something else in their life that may be just out of reach. I search for spiritual, mental, and emotional freedom; I often find myself tied down by my moods or thoughts. As for spiritual freedom, I just wish I could have relief, not being weighed down by the expectations of life.
That being said, how many of us have actually acheived that level of freedom? How many people in America have found a freedom further than what our forefathers gave us? Until we become free of our demands, expectations, and deadlines, none of us will acheive complete freedom.
"There is no such thing as part freedom" -Nelson Mandela
Kelsey, I definitely agree with what you are saying. Toni Morrison was clever in tying the freedom of women in general and Sethe's story.
This novel displays the effects of slavery as well as several emotional and physical aspects that one goes through when their rights are taken away.
I would like to expand on one particular passage of the book that I felt was interesting and relevant to the subject of freedom and loneliness. 124 had been haunted ever since Sethe killed her baby out of love and protection. Paul D, a friend from where Sethe used to live, came and got rid of this ghost. He fought the baby ghost and said, "'God damn it! Hush up!' Paul D was shouting, falling, reaching for anchor. 'Leave the place alone! Get the hell out!'...'You want to fight, come on! God damn it! She got enough without you. She got enough!'" After Paul D caused the ghost to leave, Sethe felt as if she was free from this constant nagging. However, Denver felt lonely. "Now her mother was upstairs with the man who had gotten rid of the only other company she had. Denver dipped a bit a bread into jelly. Slowly, methodically, miserably she ate it." These two passages show that although Paul D's intentions were to rid the house of harm, he really caused harm to Denver and even Sethe, by his selfish actions.
Although freedom was expected, there was still more bondage that the residents of 124 were put into. Since Sethe made the decision to protect her baby from slavery by killing her, she will never have the privilege of ever forgetting it. I also strongly agree with the quote from Nelson Mandela, Kelsey. I think that it applies to Sethe's so-called "part freedom."
I'm not to far into beloved at the moment, but Kelsey, after reading the foreward I also began to think of how I consider one "free". Your description saying, "Until we become free of our demands, expectations, and deadlines, none of us will acheive complete freedom," really made me think. Originally my idea of freedom was that one had to decide when they were free for themselves. I guess I've always considered freedom as just happiness. Personally, I feel completely free when im completely and utterly happy. Yet, as I read your description I have to agree that you can't be COMPLETELY free until every burden in your life is removed.
As I have read I have felt a strong connection to Denver. Lauren, you mentioned how when Paul D. rid the house of the only being that Denver believed she had she was alone. When Denver is telling Paul D. about the ghost she says, "'No sir,'...'not evil. But not sad either.' 'What then?' 'Rebuked. Lonely and rebuked.'"(pg.16) I loved these lines because you can tell that while her mother is desperately trying to rid of this haunt, Denver is fond of it. She takes comfort in it. I just found it amazing that such a young girl could find comfort in something that is typically considered bad.
To end this off I want to point out the paragraph that starts on the bottom of page 29. To quote a few of the lines, "...in all of Baby's life, as well as Sethe's own, men and women were moved around like checkers. Anybody Baby Suggs knew, let alone loved, who hadn't run off or been hanged, got rented out, loaned out, bought up, brought back, stored up, mortgaged, won, stolen or seized....Halle she was able to keep the longest. Twenty years. A lifetime." This paragraph made me so sad. Just think of it, everyone you loved, connected to, just being taken away with no consideration. That would be so hard. I can't even imagine what it was like to have your own children sold. It's hard to believe that people survived it.
Mariah, I also wonder how people survived watching their loved ones getting sold. I believe, that somehow, Sethe was protecting her child when she killed her. I don't believe that it was the only way to save her, but she didn't want her daughter to experience the bondage and life that she lived. Sethe believed there was no other way. Why should people have to chose between life and freedom? Sometimes, is the only way that people can be free is through death?
Lauren I will come back to what you said when I get further into the book.
Right now, I want to talk about one particular section in the book that I have fallen in love with. On page 102 a "story" about Baby Suggs begins. "'Let the children come!'....'Let your mothers hear you laugh,' she told them, and the woods rang....'Let the grown men come,' she shouted....'Let your wives and your children see you dance'....Finally she called the women to her. 'Cry,' she told them. 'For the living and the dead.'.... It started that way:laughing children, dancing men, crying women and then it got mixed up....In the silence that followed, Baby Suggs, holy, offered up to them her great big heart." This is an abbreviated version, but I still find it beautiful. Calling all of these people together, it lifts my heart to even hear it happening. Letting these people laugh, cry and dance is giving them a chance to forgive themselves. "She told them that the only grace they could have was the grace they could imagine. That if they could not see it, they would not have it." These are beautiful words.
Baby Suggs tells them to love their own flesh, because others will never love it. They just have to love themselves. I think everybody should take this to mind and follow it. Just love yourself.
Oh, and go back and read that section if you want. Last paragraph on page 102 is where it starts.
Like Kelsey said, this book really makes you think about what freedom really means. It makes you think about what it truly means to be free and what people will do just to obtain it. Beloved is a perfect illustration of what some would do for freedom.
Also, Like Mariah and Lauren, i have a hard time imagining the true pain one must have felt watching their loved ones be sold away to people so you could never see them again. It had to be excruciating.
Alright, so I found another section that really made me imagine. Pages 212-213, the last paragraph on pae 212 that continues. Where Stamp was talking about the killings of blacks, and the ribbon he found. His quote, "'What are these people? You tell me, Jesus. What are they?"' I just wanted to bring something up. Whatever race you are, imagine yourself in the situation of both races. For white people, the hatred and murders that victimized blacks was perfectly normal. If we were to live back then, you would either be one of those people that killed, or one of the people that tried to protect. Now, for the victims, the black people. You were constantly mistreated and you had to watch your back all the time. Never knowing who to trust could be awfully exhausting.
I just found it crazy imagining being in any of those situations. No matter who your were, the segregation was normal. The fact that Stamp asked "what are these people?" really scared me I guess.
I also wanted to ask one more thing. Lauren, in your blogs you mentioned how Sethe killed her baby out of love. I just hit that part in the book towards the middle, was it brought up in the start of the book, because I don't want to miss something big. At times, this book gets very confusing to me, I hope that in the end, I can figure out the answers to my many questions.
Mariah, I can also agree that this book confused me at some points. One particular chapter, pages 248-252, was extremely confusing. This chapter was Beloved's voice. From what I have deciphered, I think I have a general idea of what is going on. To begin the chapter Beloved states, "I am Beloved and she is mine. I see her take flowers away from leaves she puts them in a round basket she opens the grass I would help her but the clouds are in the way how can I say things that are pictures I am not separate from her there is no place I stop her face is my own and I want to be in the place where her face is and to be looking at it too a hot thing." This particular passage displays a lot of symbolism. Beloved is talking about seeing Sethe, her mother, and how she wants to be with her, but the clouds are in the way. The clouds are the place that she is now, the bondage, almost like purgatory. Throughout the whole chapter, Beloved keeps repeating the phrase "a hot thing." This phrase refers to how she couldn't touch her mother. A hot thing is something that you can't touch, something that is far away. This chapter was extremely challening but can be interpreted through study. The last passage of the chapter is when Beloved is free, and she is reunited with Sethe. "...when I open them I see the face that I lost Sethe's is the face that left me Sethe sees me see her and see the smile her smiling face is the place for me it is the face I lost she is my face smiling at me doing it at last a hot thing now we can join a hot thing." This passage really voices how Sethe was something that Beloved couldn't touch, a hot thing. This also states how she was reunited with her mother, whom is a huge part of her. If anyone has gotten this far, let me know how you felt about this chapter, and how you interpreted it.
Lauren, I was just getting on here to comment about those same pages. Actually, from pages 248-256. I also had to study these pages to understand the meaning, but in the end came to almost the same conclusion, besides the clouds. At first when I read the lines, "In the beginning I could see her I could not help her because the clouds were in the way" I think I took them to literal. At the time I thought Beloved meant that she had been watching her when she was just the spirit in the house, but could not help her because she wasn't "there." Now I realize that your interpretaion makes much more sense.
What I really wanted to comment on is how beautiful these pages are. As I read, they truely sounded like poetry to me. Specifically on page 255: "I needed her face to smile. I could only hear breathing. The breathing is gone; only the teeth are left. She said you wouldn't hurt me. She hurt me. I will protect you. I want her face. Don't love her too much. I am loving her too much. Watch out for her; she can give you dreams. She chews and swallows. Don't fall asleep when she braids your hair. She is the lauggh; I am the laughter. I watch the house; I watch the yard. She left me. Daddy is coming for us. A hot thing."
I loved these passages. They were so beautiful to me. That's when I realized there are alot of parts throughout the book that sounded alot like poetry. Alot of beautiful detail and rich pictures.
Anyway, I have to just say that this book has become one of my favorites.
Mariah, I TOTALLY agree with you about the passages you noted above; they truly are beautiful and so powerful. The poem after that, beginning on page 255, is the one that really spoke to me:
"Beloved You are my sister You are my daughter You are my face; you are me I have found you again; you have come back to me You are my Beloved You are mine You are mine You are mine
I have your milk I have your smile I will take care of you
You are my face; I am you. Why did you leave me who am you? I will never leave you again Don't ever leave me again You will never leave me again You went in the water I drank your blood I brought your milk You went in the water I drank your blood I brought your milk You forgot to smile I loved you You hurt me You came back to me You left me
I waited for you You are mine You are mine You are mine"
There is so much greed in this poem. It's like Sethe, Denver, and Beloved are all going to take each other hostage and set each other free, but can you blame them? This is so powerful for me because it really shows how much they all want just one thing to themselves for once - one thing that won't be ripped away from them. In Sethe's whole life, everything that was important and everyone she loved was taken away from her: Halle, her earrings, her milk, her children. Denver has just been deprived of everything; all she wants is someone to play with, keep her company, someone to love and be loved by. Beloved was taken away from the only person she COULD love at such a young age, by the one she loved. It absolutely tears the readers heart apart when they realize the complication of this poem. Beautifully composed on Toni Morrison's part.
I agree with Kelsey. The poem gives you an insight that you might not have seen before and makes you think 'How would you reply if you lost everything?' It's the strong words of Toni Morrison that brings the poem and her story to a level where others can feel what she's writing. It is easily a book that can make you think and wonder about many things and kinda brings the world into perspective about what's important and what isn't.
Lauren, thanks for clearing up the "hot thing" definition! I had no idea what that meant!
On page 233-234, a passage about Sethe had some hidden meaning, I think; "And the heart that beat inside it had not for a single moment stopped in her hands. She opened the door, walked in and locked it tight behind her." Sethe has everything she needs and wants inside that house, and she locks the door behind her to make sure that thought, that dream is safe and cannot escape. It's like a comfort action. Later on, on page 235, the "narrator" explains why she locked the door behind her, "When Sethe locked the door, the women inside were free at last to be what they liked, see whatever they saw and say whatever was on their minds." While this is true, I just thought I'd bring up another possible reason as to why she locked the door.
As I began reading this novel, I found it helpful to read the Foreword. Not only was it helpful, but insightful as well. Toni Morrison uses about a paragraph to expand on the meaning of women's freedom, "I think now it was the shock of liberation that drew my thoughts to what 'free' could possibly mean to women . . . Assertions of parenthood under conditions peculiar to the logic of institutional enslavement were criminal".
ReplyDeleteI did a little of my own "expanding" off her thoughts. She mentions equality and other factors of freedom concerning law, but is that all freedom is to an individual? For some, physical and rightful freedom is sufficient enough. However, I know that for me, I still yearn for something more. I believe that at one point or another, everyone searches for something else in their life that may be just out of reach. I search for spiritual, mental, and emotional freedom; I often find myself tied down by my moods or thoughts. As for spiritual freedom, I just wish I could have relief, not being weighed down by the expectations of life.
That being said, how many of us have actually acheived that level of freedom? How many people in America have found a freedom further than what our forefathers gave us? Until we become free of our demands, expectations, and deadlines, none of us will acheive complete freedom.
"There is no such thing as part freedom" -Nelson Mandela
Kelsey, I definitely agree with what you are saying. Toni Morrison was clever in tying the freedom of women in general and Sethe's story.
ReplyDeleteThis novel displays the effects of slavery as well as several emotional and physical aspects that one goes through when their rights are taken away.
I would like to expand on one particular passage of the book that I felt was interesting and relevant to the subject of freedom and loneliness. 124 had been haunted ever since Sethe killed her baby out of love and protection. Paul D, a friend from where Sethe used to live, came and got rid of this ghost. He fought the baby ghost and said, "'God damn it! Hush up!' Paul D was shouting, falling, reaching for anchor. 'Leave the place alone! Get the hell out!'...'You want to fight, come on! God damn it! She got enough without you. She got enough!'" After Paul D caused the ghost to leave, Sethe felt as if she was free from this constant nagging. However, Denver felt lonely. "Now her mother was upstairs with the man who had gotten rid of the only other company she had. Denver dipped a bit a bread into jelly. Slowly, methodically, miserably she ate it." These two passages show that although
Paul D's intentions were to rid the house of harm, he really caused harm to Denver and even Sethe, by his selfish actions.
Although freedom was expected, there was still more bondage that the residents of 124 were put into. Since Sethe made the decision to protect her baby from slavery by killing her, she will never have the privilege of ever forgetting it. I also strongly agree with the quote from Nelson Mandela, Kelsey. I think that it applies to Sethe's so-called "part freedom."
I'm not to far into beloved at the moment, but Kelsey, after reading the foreward I also began to think of how I consider one "free".
ReplyDeleteYour description saying, "Until we become free of our demands, expectations, and deadlines, none of us will acheive complete freedom," really made me think.
Originally my idea of freedom was that one had to decide when they were free for themselves. I guess I've always considered freedom as just happiness. Personally, I feel completely free when im completely and utterly happy. Yet, as I read your description I have to agree that you can't be COMPLETELY free until every burden in your life is removed.
As I have read I have felt a strong connection to Denver. Lauren, you mentioned how when Paul D. rid the house of the only being that Denver believed she had she was alone. When Denver is telling Paul D. about the ghost she says, "'No sir,'...'not evil. But not sad either.'
'What then?'
'Rebuked. Lonely and rebuked.'"(pg.16)
I loved these lines because you can tell that while her mother is desperately trying to rid of this haunt, Denver is fond of it. She takes comfort in it. I just found it amazing that such a young girl could find comfort in something that is typically considered bad.
To end this off I want to point out the paragraph that starts on the bottom of page 29. To quote a few of the lines, "...in all of Baby's life, as well as Sethe's own, men and women were moved around like checkers. Anybody Baby Suggs knew, let alone loved, who hadn't run off or been hanged, got rented out, loaned out, bought up, brought back, stored up, mortgaged, won, stolen or seized....Halle she was able to keep the longest. Twenty years. A lifetime." This paragraph made me so sad. Just think of it, everyone you loved, connected to, just being taken away with no consideration. That would be so hard. I can't even imagine what it was like to have your own children sold. It's hard to believe that people survived it.
Mariah, I also wonder how people survived watching their loved ones getting sold. I believe, that somehow, Sethe was protecting her child when she killed her. I don't believe that it was the only way to save her, but she didn't want her daughter to experience the bondage and life that she lived. Sethe believed there was no other way. Why should people have to chose between life and freedom? Sometimes, is the only way that people can be free is through death?
ReplyDeleteLauren I will come back to what you said when I get further into the book.
ReplyDeleteRight now, I want to talk about one particular section in the book that I have fallen in love with. On page 102 a "story" about Baby Suggs begins. "'Let the children come!'....'Let your mothers hear you laugh,' she told them, and the woods rang....'Let the grown men come,' she shouted....'Let your wives and your children see you dance'....Finally she called the women to her. 'Cry,' she told them. 'For the living and the dead.'.... It started that way:laughing children, dancing men, crying women and then it got mixed up....In the silence that followed, Baby Suggs, holy, offered up to them her great big heart." This is an abbreviated version, but I still find it beautiful. Calling all of these people together, it lifts my heart to even hear it happening. Letting these people laugh, cry and dance is giving them a chance to forgive themselves.
"She told them that the only grace they could have was the grace they could imagine. That if they could not see it, they would not have it." These are beautiful words.
Baby Suggs tells them to love their own flesh, because others will never love it. They just have to love themselves.
I think everybody should take this to mind and follow it. Just love yourself.
Oh, and go back and read that section if you want. Last paragraph on page 102 is where it starts.
Like Kelsey said, this book really makes you think about what freedom really means. It makes you think about what it truly means to be free and what people will do just to obtain it. Beloved is a perfect illustration of what some would do for freedom.
ReplyDeleteAlso, Like Mariah and Lauren, i have a hard time imagining the true pain one must have felt watching their loved ones be sold away to people so you could never see them again. It had to be excruciating.
Alright, so I found another section that really made me imagine. Pages 212-213, the last paragraph on pae 212 that continues. Where Stamp was talking about the killings of blacks, and the ribbon he found. His quote, "'What are these people? You tell me, Jesus. What are they?"'
ReplyDeleteI just wanted to bring something up. Whatever race you are, imagine yourself in the situation of both races.
For white people, the hatred and murders that victimized blacks was perfectly normal. If we were to live back then, you would either be one of those people that killed, or one of the people that tried to protect.
Now, for the victims, the black people. You were constantly mistreated and you had to watch your back all the time. Never knowing who to trust could be awfully exhausting.
I just found it crazy imagining being in any of those situations. No matter who your were, the segregation was normal. The fact that Stamp asked "what are these people?" really scared me I guess.
I also wanted to ask one more thing. Lauren, in your blogs you mentioned how Sethe killed her baby out of love. I just hit that part in the book towards the middle, was it brought up in the start of the book, because I don't want to miss something big. At times, this book gets very confusing to me, I hope that in the end, I can figure out the answers to my many questions.
Mariah, I can also agree that this book confused me at some points. One particular chapter, pages 248-252, was extremely confusing. This chapter was Beloved's voice. From what I have deciphered, I think I have a general idea of what is going on. To begin the chapter Beloved states, "I am Beloved and she is mine. I see her take flowers away from leaves she puts them in a round basket she opens the grass I would help her but the clouds are in the way how can I say things that are pictures I am not separate from her there is no place I stop her face is my own and I want to be in the place where her face is and to be looking at it too a hot thing." This particular passage displays a lot of symbolism. Beloved is talking about seeing Sethe, her mother, and how she wants to be with her, but the clouds are in the way. The clouds are the place that she is now, the bondage, almost like purgatory. Throughout the whole chapter, Beloved keeps repeating the phrase "a hot thing." This phrase refers to how she couldn't touch her mother. A hot thing is something that you can't touch, something that is far away. This chapter was extremely challening but can be interpreted through study. The last passage of the chapter is when Beloved is free, and she is reunited with Sethe. "...when I open them I see the face that I lost Sethe's is the face that left me Sethe sees me see her and see the smile her smiling face is the place for me it is the face I lost she is my face smiling at me doing it at last a hot thing now we can join a hot thing." This passage really voices how Sethe was something that Beloved couldn't touch, a hot thing. This also states how she was reunited with her mother, whom is a huge part of her. If anyone has gotten this far, let me know how you felt about this chapter, and how you interpreted it.
ReplyDeleteLauren, I was just getting on here to comment about those same pages. Actually, from pages 248-256. I also had to study these pages to understand the meaning, but in the end came to almost the same conclusion, besides the clouds. At first when I read the lines, "In the beginning I could see her I could not help her because the clouds were in the way" I think I took them to literal. At the time I thought Beloved meant that she had been watching her when she was just the spirit in the house, but could not help her because she wasn't "there." Now I realize that your interpretaion makes much more sense.
ReplyDeleteWhat I really wanted to comment on is how beautiful these pages are. As I read, they truely sounded like poetry to me. Specifically on page 255:
"I needed her face to smile.
I could only hear breathing.
The breathing is gone; only the teeth are left.
She said you wouldn't hurt me.
She hurt me.
I will protect you.
I want her face.
Don't love her too much.
I am loving her too much.
Watch out for her; she can give you dreams.
She chews and swallows.
Don't fall asleep when she braids your hair.
She is the lauggh; I am the laughter.
I watch the house; I watch the yard.
She left me.
Daddy is coming for us.
A hot thing."
I loved these passages. They were so beautiful to me. That's when I realized there are alot of parts throughout the book that sounded alot like poetry. Alot of beautiful detail and rich pictures.
Anyway, I have to just say that this book has become one of my favorites.
Mariah, I TOTALLY agree with you about the passages you noted above; they truly are beautiful and so powerful. The poem after that, beginning on page 255, is the one that really spoke to me:
ReplyDelete"Beloved
You are my sister
You are my daughter
You are my face; you are me
I have found you again; you have come back to me
You are my Beloved
You are mine
You are mine
You are mine
I have your milk
I have your smile
I will take care of you
You are my face; I am you. Why did you leave me
who am you?
I will never leave you again
Don't ever leave me again
You will never leave me again
You went in the water
I drank your blood
I brought your milk
You went in the water
I drank your blood
I brought your milk
You forgot to smile
I loved you
You hurt me
You came back to me
You left me
I waited for you
You are mine
You are mine
You are mine"
There is so much greed in this poem. It's like Sethe, Denver, and Beloved are all going to take each other hostage and set each other free, but can you blame them? This is so powerful for me because it really shows how much they all want just one thing to themselves for once - one thing that won't be ripped away from them.
In Sethe's whole life, everything that was important and everyone she loved was taken away from her: Halle, her earrings, her milk, her children. Denver has just been deprived of everything; all she wants is someone to play with, keep her company, someone to love and be loved by. Beloved was taken away from the only person she COULD love at such a young age, by the one she loved.
It absolutely tears the readers heart apart when they realize the complication of this poem. Beautifully composed on Toni Morrison's part.
I agree with Kelsey. The poem gives you an insight that you might not have seen before and makes you think 'How would you reply if you lost everything?'
ReplyDeleteIt's the strong words of Toni Morrison that brings the poem and her story to a level where others can feel what she's writing. It is easily a book that can make you think and wonder about many things and kinda brings the world into perspective about what's important and what isn't.
Lauren, thanks for clearing up the "hot thing" definition! I had no idea what that meant!
ReplyDeleteOn page 233-234, a passage about Sethe had some hidden meaning, I think; "And the heart that beat inside it had not for a single moment stopped in her hands. She opened the door, walked in and locked it tight behind her." Sethe has everything she needs and wants inside that house, and she locks the door behind her to make sure that thought, that dream is safe and cannot escape. It's like a comfort action. Later on, on page 235, the "narrator" explains why she locked the door behind her, "When Sethe locked the door, the women inside were free at last to be what they liked, see whatever they saw and say whatever was on their minds." While this is true, I just thought I'd bring up another possible reason as to why she locked the door.